I recently found a very disturbing situation that has been described in detail over on the Rick Ross cult education forum.
Some background: what the Rick Ross forum poster discusses below, is an attempt by Andrew Cohen to use lies and underhanded tactics in order to keep people away from William Yenner's website and a scathing book he wrote about Andrew Cohen, called American Guru.
I am going to repost the bulk of this piece (see below) because they did such a thorough job with this revealing look at the machinations of Andrew Cohen's minions (the creators of Guru-Talk). Also, keep in mind that Genpo Roshi of Big Mind is heavily involved with Cohen as I detailed in a previous blog post.
I urge you to try the simple web experiment (given below) for yourself.
REPOSTED FROM RICK ROSS FORUM
Here's simple-minded proof: open two browsers; point one to [www.guru-talk.com] and point the other to [www.guru-talk.com]
What you are looking at is a concerted effort by guru-talk.com to intercept search engine queries for "american guru" "william yenner" - look at the effort they went through by posting the exact same content but interspersing the term "american guru" everywhere they could and tagging articles with "William Yenner" when they seemingly have
nothing to do with him. Kind of creepy, don't you think?
Tuesday, 05 January, 2010[/quote][/quote]
This is indeed an attempt to manipulate PageRank and screw up people's searches. It's partially worked, too; depending of the search terms you enter, the guru-talk site sometimes appears above Yenner's site in search results, but fortunately not above all Yenner search results.
A quick whois.com search shows that Elytra Design, whose administrative contact is Andrea Hurley, owns the guru-talk site. According to Ms. Hurley's biography on Gaia:
"Hello! My name is Andrea Hurley, and I have been a student of Spiritual Teacher, Andrew Cohen since 1988, and currently help to manage the EnlightenNext Center in Cambridge."
To really see how blatant the rip-off of Yenner's site is, try this experiment: open 2 browsers and click:
[americanguru.net]
[www.guru-talk.com]
If you use tabs, both of your tabs will say "American Guru". The one for "guru-talk" does not say "Guru Talk". Among other signs of manipulation, the stack of tags on guru-talk is 4 inches thick.
Google frowns on Hurley's kind of sleazy manipulation of PageRank and penalizes sites that think the can get away with it. I hope Bill Yenner will contact them directly, if he hasn't already.
(EDIT #1 BY GNIZ:) Also note that Guru-Talk, at least on its face, claims to have little affiliation with EnlightenNext or Andrew Cohen. In the "About Guru-Talk" page, they say "Guru Talk is an article site written by former close students of contemporary spiritual teacher and “American Guru” Andrew Cohen." However, the above research on Guru-Talk's site owner shows that it is actually a flimsy front for Cohen's organization.
(EDIT #2 BY GNIZ:) This isn't the first time Cohen and his ilk have attempted to use sleazy web-attacks to confuse people. Back in 2005 when a group of former students started the What Enlightenment??! blog to address his abuses, Cohen's clan started What Enlightenment Uncensored as a response.
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16 comments:
Not surprising in the least. It seems Cohen and his current (albeit posing as "former") students will try anything to divert people from the facts, praising their guru's abusiveness as a liberating teaching!
Hello,
You *do* seem like a caring kind of person and some of what you do e.g. this seems really positive but I'm sure you've been asked before what you think of fame and buddhism lol...
Hi Anon. Are you asking what I think of fame and Buddhism? (I'm not sure if it was a rhetorical question)
I think anybody seeking fame or being sucked into a lifestyle of riches, power, influence, etc. is going to have a big struggle to maintain their integrity.
I just read the book The Politician about John Edwards and was amazed at how closely it resembled books like American Guru and Enlightenment Blues, etc. Yes, some of the lingo and situations are different, but the trajectory is the same.
Money and power are seductive. In my own life, some small access to money (nothing that would impress anybody with real wealth) has shown me just how easy it is to get caught up in the drive to have more and more.
Nobody is immune from that. Buddhist teachers may want to pretend they are, but nobody really is.
Does that mean Buddhist teachers should run screaming from any kind of financial or commercial success? No, I don't think so.
Just like there are very grounded and down to earth movie stars and politicians, there will be down to earth spiritual teachers.
But a lot of them--dare I say most of them--are mentally unbalanced, psychologically shallow people with huge egos and disregard for the feelings of those that serve and cater to them.
It's funny that gurus promote themselves as Special People and God's Gift to Humankind, then when the picture is balanced out with previously hidden facts, the guru and his disciples complain that the whistleblowers are painting an unbalanced picture. It seems to me that the whistleblowers are balancing out a previously unbalanced portrait.
On his website, Andrew Cohen promotes himself as:
"21st century spiritual teacher and pioneer of evolutionary enlightenment".
That sounds much better than:
"21st century spiritual teacher and pioneer of evolutionary enlightenment who slaps disciples, humiliates disciples, and dunks disciples in cold lakes."
No, it wasn't a rhetorical question. I guess I'm a little disappointed because I wanted you to take it more seriously: isn't fame like excrement to the wise?
Also while I'm here, 2 questions
a) my local zen group won't help me with instructions unless I join them, is that normal? I don't think it's a cult, I'm probably just being "bitchy" or something.
b) does it make sense to validate or understand ones own position, granted that it's not one of awakening, on one's own and through scripture, academic texts etc. And can one really progress at all, also with a sudden approach, without a teacher?
If not then how does one decide they are authentic?
Hey thanks because that's exactly what I need to know!
I think I misunderstood the blog and figured it was Buddhist. Still any reply appreciated.
As I do sort of believe in transmission, maybe only through scripture, it's not something I really think about. I mean, I do think that the Buddha had some kind of knowledge through meditation, and in the turning of the dharma wheel. In a non literal way without losing the literalness of practice etc.. I assumed that the Buddhist church would be the best way to decide what is a cult. I.E. anything except the church lol. Anyway I'll read some more of the blog now, if you can reply to my original questions that'd be interesting too...
Hi Anon,
Sorry you felt I didn't take your question more seriously. Firstly, I did try and answer the question as I understood it. But now that you write, "isn't fame like excrement to the wise?" I think some would call this a rather "idealistic" statement.
Who are these "wise people" that are unaffected by fame or money or power? How can we know if they are unaffected or simply pretending to be that way?
Humans desire comfort to some extent, and things like fame can allow us to have more security and comfort, so to call fame excrement is not necessarily accurate.
Let's be clear. Many, many Eastern teachers have come to the U.S. and been given the rockstar treatment and seem to enjoy it rather a lot.
So we should try and treat teachers (in my opinion) like any other people, who may have areas of insight and wisdom but also areas where they need some work or perhaps fall short of the mark, just like the rest of us.
Hey Anon,
I'm gonna give your other questions a shot, but I would also suggest emailing Brad Warner(spoozilla@gmail.com). Brad is a Buddhist teacher who may help you in these areas. Also take a run over to treeleaf.org and join up with the forums, ask questions, etc.
As for my take on your questions.
"a) my local zen group won't help me with instructions unless I join them, is that normal?"
I think it depends on how they've explained this. In my opinion, they should be willing to do SOME amount of explaining up front, since you're new to all of this. How can you join a group you don't know the first thing about? At the same time, if you're incredibly pushy and needy with questions, they may suggest that the level of instruction your after requires a commitment to practice.
"b) does it make sense to validate or understand ones own position...on one's own and through scripture, academic texts etc. And can one really progress at all...without a teacher?"
I think you should try and meditate to the best of your ability, settling on an approach that feels comfortable for you, and then sticking with that approach as long as possible. The less "baggage" you attach to it the better off you'll be. Fixating on what it will take to awaken and how close you are to that state is honestly a waste of time, imo. But I did it for years and years, so what can I say...sometimes you need to bash your head against a wall.
"If not then how does one decide they are authentic?"
Authentic is in the eye of the beholder. You determine the authenticity of your own practice and what works for you. period. You can't really know if anyone else is authentic (although you can take an educated guess), but you can decide what is right for you.
Right thanks that's interesting.
I was probably a little needy and as pushy as one can be considering I was nicely asking for instructions that made sense. Not aggressive or objectionable except in a parallel universe imho. I specifically asked if they taught meditation and I would have been more subservient if they had said yes.
Which leads me back to fame. I didn't mean that you weren't taking my question seriously enough, really I meant that you didn't seem to think that the criticism is at all valid. I understand your reasons for that but they're not Buddhist reasons. People with sudden awakening are meant to be close to sainthood so a little restraint and deference to the idea that I got from the 14th century or something seems right. Funny that fame was a thing then too.
Thanks for the advice on authenticity.
From what I have read I would suggest that it's a matter of getting meditation "right" rather than hiding from conceptualization. Yes, I think some [living?] traditions do not conceptualize the path and that might be right for some but that would be contentious and besides complete adherence to such a sudden teaching means that the teacher cannot state anything on practice. From what I can recall.
I'll probably join a forum. This site is nice though, trolls are cool ;)
I tried your experiment and went to the Guru-Talk site (www.guru-talk.com) – Great!
"I tried your experiment and went to the Guru-Talk site (www.guru-talk.com) – Great!"
Lolz
Brad's site scares me lol.
> my local zen group won't help me
> with instructions unless I join
> them, is that normal?
No, not normal. There are many many meditation groups with a mission to help people. They will give you meditation instructions for free, or for donation, without requiring you to "join" anything. You can find such a group if you try.
> does it make sense to validate
> or understand ones own position,
> granted that it's not one of
> awakening, on one's own and
> through scripture, academic
> texts etc.
Just now, what do you perceive, what are you doing? That is a position of awakening (if you were asleep, you wouldn't be seeing or hearing or doing anything).
So why worry about scriptures, academic texts, or what authorities say? Already you have the Truth of your moment-to-moment experience to guide you.
> And can one really progress at
> all, also with a sudden
> approach, without a teacher?
Where did you get this idea of "progress"? Why is it that you think that this moment isn't enough, such that you must "progress" to something different? It's worthwhile looking into such things, and you have to do it for yourself.
It's OK to read scriptures or visit teachers. They may encourage you, or point you in a direction. But fundamentally you have to question your experience for yourself.
> If not then how does one decide
> they are authentic?
Why worry about whether anyone else is authentic (whatever that means)? The important thing is how you keep your own mind in this moment. Judging others is rarely necessary.
If you're interested in a teacher, you can visit him/her, see what their teaching is pointing to, and then decide for yourself whether it's anything that interests you.
> As I do sort of believe in
> transmission... I do think that
> the Buddha had some kind of
> knowledge through meditation,
> and in the turning of the dharma
> wheel.
Shakyamuni Buddha was an old monk who died centuries ago. What's he got to do with you? So an eminent Buddhist teacher said, "Even to mention the word Buddha is like dropping a load of shit on your head."
The Buddha that really matters is the True Buddha, who has already appeared, right in front of you, in this very moment. Attend to just-now, and all ideas about "Buddha" become irrelevant.
Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
To return to the original topic of this thread, that of the deceptive web tactics of Cohen's followers, consider another small but revealing example.
Writing today on Huffington Post,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-huston/spiritual-life_b_514189.html
Tom Huston who is a Cohen devote and editor of EnlightenNext magazine, introduced Cohen thusly: "American guru Andrew Cohen."
Prior to Yenner's book "American Guru" Cohen was never introduced this way.
Seems that now all Cohen apologists must be under orders to describe their guru forever using Yenner's title. Guess that's a form of compliment, no?
Andrew Cohen stole all his ideas about evolutionary enlightenment from Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet. Blatant plagiarisation. He took an interview with her but never published it.He now comes up with EE.
Harish,
I'm no fan of A. Cohen, but just saying he "stole all his ideas about evolutionary enlightenment from Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet" doesn't make it true.
I've just looked at her site, briefly. Where do I find her version of 'EE'? Where's the interview? Could you link it, or tell me where it is, please?
This - admittedly from a "requires clean-up" entry in Wiki - indicates that EE is hardly new:
"Evolutionary Enlightenment is inspired, on one hand, by the teachings of Eastern masters such as Ramana Maharshi and the Buddhist tradition. On the other hand, it also follows in the tradition of Evolutionary Spirituality pioneered by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Sri Aurobindo, Henri Bergson, Alfred North Whitehead, and the German Idealist philosophers..."
These ideas aren't anyone's property...are they?
You may be right that AC has "blatanatly plagiarised" P N-B, but without the evidence I've no way of knowing.
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